Chat it up with a Mormon, get a prize!

If you listened to yesterday’s podcast, you may have heard we have 5 memberships to give out for free, and I decided the first contest is to see who can have the best conversation with a Mormon. Since they are working diligently to spread their hilariously dumb message, you can go and have an insta-chat with Mormons right now if it tickles your fancy!

Now, while I can’t win my own prize, I did try to see if I could get some interesting answers out of my Mormon hosts:

Me: what is the most convincing thing about mormonism to you

Merisa: That we know that this is Christ’s true church on the earth once more, restored by a prophet

Me: what do you find is the most solid piece of evidence for your belief.

Merisa: We don’t need evidence. We have faith and prayer and peace and happiness

Me: so prayer is a type of evidence for you?

Merisa: yes

Merisa: We have evidence in the way we feel God’s love in our life and since we are answering your questions will you answer ours?

Me: I want to understand people, what makes them tick, what makes them believe in certain ideas

Merisa: Ok well as missionaries we are here to teach people, so what we would like to do since you are so interested in learning is send local missionaries to help you better understand these things

Me: So far it seems as though there are two main reasons for your own belief: 1) an emotional reaction to premises you’ve accepted as true, and 2) seeing pattern or direct results of your prayer. Is that a good summary?

Merisa: No

Merisa: please come back when you are willing to answer our questions

That’s when they kicked me out of the chat, so I failed at my first attempt to get them to say something interesting, but it doesn’t mean one of you can’t pull it off!

(Update: The service has since been discontinued)

You mean Religions aren’t allowed to dictate civil rights?

In case you were unaware, Mormons typically don’t like gays. They hate them so much they devoted a significant portion of their resources to pushing for Prop 8, using all kinds of ridiculous fear mongering and veiled bigotry to convince people that allowing marriages between individuals of the same sex would somehow torpedo their own unions. It didn’t matter to them this was a complete and utter fabrication; remember, these are the same folks who believe Native Americans were actually cursed Jews .

The religious authorities of the Church, known commonly as “Elders”, have been pretty clever with their use of rhetoric to mask their bigotry and disdain for civil rights, but recently one of their old fogies started complaining about Perry v. Schwarzenegger, the court case challenging the legality of Proposition 8. Elder Lance Wickman believes this case will specifically erode the “liberty” religions have in influencing politicians, something he believes is the fundamental right of all crazy conservative religions:

I believe that the greatest challenge faced by the church,” Elder Wickman said, “is the challenge to religious liberty that is growing worldwide. … A battle is looming over the effort to acquire civil social rights at the expense of civil religious rights. This battle, I believe, represents the acceleration of a disturbing slide downward in the law regarding the place of religion in the public square.

Perry seeks a court declaration that, as a matter of law, religious views may not be used to justify the denial of a social civil right.

Wow, I guess that says it all, doesn’t it? The fact this idiot actually BELIEVES religions have a right to impose their twisted and bigoted world view on the rest of us is telling. Finally, a little bit of honesty coming out of the Mormon camp. Luckily, Americans still benefit (for now) from the separation of church and state, which dictates quite plainly religions have absolutely no fucking business in politics, for exactly the reasons outlined by Elder Wickman; they seek to impose their limited view of civil liberties on others, and that simply isn’t acceptable.

Utah Morality police

Check out this hilarious note a girl from Utah found on her car. She’s since had it framed, and her husband (the guy she was being inappropriate with) still get a chuckle out of it. It’s just more proof that the “moral majority” can’t keep their fucking noses out of other people’s business.

“Hi, you don’t know me but I’ve noticed that you go into #306 apt. late @ night & I sometimes see you coming out in the morning & it’s obvious that you sleep over there b/c your car is parked @ King Henry all night. I know that it’s really none of my business but my roommates & I think that it’s inappropriate to be staying @ a boy’s house all night. I feel like I should talk to James about this problem, perhaps King Henry, but I think that you could, & should, fix this problem on your own w/out my intervention.
Thanks for your time – Have a great day :)”

Here’s the thing: just because you’re politely telling someone that you disapprove of their lifestyle, it doesn’t mean that gives you the right to tell others how to live. How many times have I been “politely” informed that I was going to burn in hell for all eternity for not believing that an illiterate Jew was a God. Too many times to count, really.

God might be all powerful, but his wallet isn’t

I’ve always been both repulsed and annoyed at the way religious organizations exploit the poor. How many times have I seen or read of preachers pressuring their flock to give when their own cupboards are empty? Too many to count I imagine.  Elder Lynn G. Robbins is a businessman and high ranking member of the Church of Latter-Day Saints. He wrote an article a while back calling on the destitute to obey the “law of  tithing”. If you’re not aware what tithing means, it’s basically 10% of your income that goes automatically to the church.

Lynn ironically enough begins with Charles Dickens’ immortal A Christmas Carol, citing how men like Scrooge find it inconvenient to be charitable. It should be noted that Lynn is the founder and owner of a company called FranklinCovey, which specializes in time management training. In 2005, their revenue was over 280 million dollars. No word on how much he sacrifices to the church in terms of his own income, but I’m willing to bet it isn’t anywhere near what he recommends others give:

When serving a meal, it is much easier to set one more plate at the beginning of the meal than it is to find food for a latecomer once the meal is over and the food has been served. Likewise, isn’t it actually easier to give the Lord the firstlings or the first fruits than it is to hope that there are sufficient “leftovers” for Him? As the founder of our feast, shouldn’t He be the guest of honor, the first to be served?

Since when does a supposedly All Powerful Entity need fucking money? Is he broke or something? Does he need to refinance his debt? Maybe they want to build yet another gigantic castle. They already have 3 (mega castles), and over 100 regular sized ones, but I guess that’s not really enough, is it? The end paragraph really sums it up nicely:

I am so grateful for the Savior, who was the perfect example of obedience through sacrifice

That’s what any successful religion needs these days: complete obedience and submission from its members, especially the poor (who always seem to give more of their share than the rest, usually out of  desperation). Am I the only one who sees this as completely unappealing? When has submission ever been an admirable trait?

LDS Church warns against dangers of MMORPGs

If you are a Mormon, or have ever been one, you know full well the Church is not a live and let live organization. They are involved in every aspect of your life, from dictating what kind of food you put in your mouth, to the choice of underwear. In this article, the Church warns of the dangers of MMORPGs, which they consider to be an idle waste of time.

“One of the ways Satan lessens your effectiveness and weakens your spiritual strength is by encouraging you to spend large blocks of your time doing things that matter very little. I speak of such things as sitting for hours on end watching television or videos, playing video games night in and night out, surfing the Internet, or devoting huge blocks of time to sports, games, or other recreational activities.”

If the Church had it their way, you would be spending your time doing something more “useful”, like praying, thinking about Jesus, or reading the joke they call The Book of Mormon. I could tell you that the real waste of time is bothering to talk to your invisible friend all day instead of learning about the world around you, but who the fuck am I to judge what the hell you do? At the end of the day, anything could be considered a waste of time. So long as it makes you happy and doesn’t hurt anyone else, I really don’t see the harm

Now there will always be people who abuse a good thing, and that’s just a fact of life. You can’t save people from themselves, but like all addictions, people will eventually get bored and try something else. Let’s just hope they don’t turn to a religion that thinks Native Americans descended from the Jews. What a stupid waste of time that is!

Gay couple handcuffed by Mormons for “inappropriate behavior”

The universe is a wondrous place, filled with gigantic exploding supernovas, galaxies that collide into other galaxies, and immense black holes even light cannot escape from. And yet, in this amazing place buzzing with activity, we are supposed to believe an all powerful being is interested in what holes are being used for sexual intercourse.

I’ve always felt that religion’s paltry and pathetic answers to the questions of the universe failed to meet anything resembling a reasonable and satisfying explanation to why the cosmos is the way it is. I understand, however, that for some the comfort of believing a benevolent caretaker is behind the wheel brings a certain peace of mind in an otherwise random existence. What annoys me is when they feel it’s their responsibility to tell everyone else how to live, and in particular, how to have sex.

Two gay men were arrested and humiliated yesterday for kissing and hugging one another on a plaza owned by the Mormon Church. The couple was handcuffed and charged with a misdemeanor for failing to obey the commands of the security guards who asked them to behave ‘appropriately’ (in other words, ‘not gay’).

I’m anxious for the day when human beings will stop being so obsessed about what private parts go in what holes. It seems so pathetically petty to be so caught up in what is essentially humans showing affection and sexual interest for one another. Personally, I think we should all be fucking more, not less. If a supposedly omni-benevolent deity can’t deal with the fact some human beings prefer the company of the same sex, is that really a God anyone should be interested in worshiping?

Another blow for Mormons

One of the crappy things about being a fairly recent religion is without the benefit of long stretches of time, the claims made in your religious tomes can usually be tested. Take for instance the Book of Mormon and its claim Native Americans are descendants of Lehi, a prophet who immigrated from Jerusalem to the Americas. Despite the fact there is no archeological evidence to support this claim, many Mormon apologists have tried in vain to put the burden of proof on the scientific community (by stating Lehi’s wife was of unknown origins). The scientific community eventually responded by genetically testing native populations to see if there was any evidence that this was, in fact, possible. Unsurprisingly, the lab results have shown they did not descend in any way from Jews. Case closed, right?

Well, that’s never going to be enough proof for the faithful droves to abandon their silly religion. They already have way too much invested in their nonsense to care about the truth anyways. Of course, it must secretly burn their insides that so far every claim which can be tested historically, archeologically, or scientifically has shown unequivocally that Mormonism is entirely the product of Joseph Smith’s delusional mind. This is the same dude who claims to have done more for mankind than anyone who has ever lived. That honor actually goes to this man, but I still find it funny that the same guy who is arrested several times for fraud ends up becoming a religious prophet. It just goes to show the ultimate scam is, and will forever be, religion.

The Good Atheist Podcast: EP 058

This week, we talk about a 16th century trial to excommunicate the woodworm, the Jefferson Bible, empathy, and the First Amendment. Also on the show, Prosperity gospels and a brief outline of Mormon belief. Come get your fix!

The Good Atheist
The Good Atheist
The Good Atheist Podcast: EP 058
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The Good Atheist Podcast: EP 056

This week we muse on Orson Scott Card speaking ill of atheists, our thoughts on Alberta’s Bill 44, how Atheists in prison face a new kind of discrimination, Scientology’s creepy copyright rules, and more Child molestation charges.

The Good Atheist
The Good Atheist
The Good Atheist Podcast: EP 056
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Orson Scott Card is poorly informed

Personally I’m pretty sick and tired of religious individuals commenting on atheism when they have absolutely no idea what it means to dis-believe in God. Let me assure you, religious readers, I am not an atheist because of an abusive or absent father (an idea so insultingly wrong I usually choose not to dignify it with an answer). I am also not an atheist because of some secret hatred or spurning from your religion. I simply believe the world has no need for your services, and I’m tired of your logically unsound accusations atheism is a religion.

If your interested in hearing another baseless attack from a prominent religionist, here is science fiction writer Orson Scott Card making the common claim atheism is a faith based belief, just like Mormonism. What is obviously missing in his tirade is any form of proof concerning his own beliefs. Card claims atheism is somehow faith based, since we have ‘faith’ science will explain everything about the universe. Card’s somehow failed to realize science isn’t so much a belief as it is a process of learning about the natural world (I guess you can write science fiction without really ‘getting’ it). I trust the Earth revolves around the Sun, but this trust is only made possible because of the amount of scrutiny and work that has gone into understanding just how this is possible (see gravity if you’re confused). If I was to ever doubt the truthfulness of this claim, I can study it for myself.

Let me make this as clear as possible to avoid any further confusion: Religion makes claims that are demonstrably false. Human beings are not born of virgins. Horses do not fly up to heaven. Deceased persons cannot be resurrected. And of course, in the case of Mormonism, Native Americans are not descendants of Jews, men do not live on the moon, and do I even need to mention how stupid magic underwear really is?

Card makes the same annoying claim that an atheist cannot disprove God, and yet he has nothing to offer in the way of actual proof his religion has any idea what it’s talking about. At least when a person is making a scientific claim, the burden of proof is always on the person making that claim, not on others to disprove it. This may seem like a simple truth, but to believers, the concept of the burden of proof is reversed. They actually think we need to disprove their childish interpretation of the universe. The tenets of their religions were quite literally plucked from the imagination of their specific prophets, who had little if any regard for such trivial things as evidence. Why should I be surprised there are no requirements in religion to make proof a necessary part of belief?

I hate to rain on everyone’s parade here, but in terms of defensible cosmological positions, there are few as sound and reasonable as atheism. We simply refuse to believe in the personal Gods of religions simply because every single one of them is incapable of providing a single shred of evidence that suggests their claims are real. In fact, their very belief system requires human beings to abandon the natural instinct to demand for proof in favor of faith: believing in something despite evidence to the contrary. This speaks volumes as to the intellectual honesty of believers.

I know that there are many who think their theological positions are researched, intelligent, and logical. They are sadly mistaken. The simple fact is all religions discourage intellectual honesty. At their very core, they demand adherents surrender reason and logic in favor of mystical and supernatural interpretations of natural phenomenon. While some take a literal approach to this (like Christians think deadly storms are the result of an angry God), others have adopted the natural understanding of science while rejecting the inevitable conclusion that the processes of nature and the universe do not require a supernatural guardian to function. Their intellectually lazy conclusion is to include God in the gaps, which is the only way many of them can cope with the fact that as our understanding of the world improves, it becomes all the more obvious religious claims are basically primitive mythologies that are the moral homilies of ancient storytellers. Nothing more.

Orson also believes in the popular claim that histories greatest monsters have all been atheists, and the non belief in God must somehow make people evil. Although I won’t deny Stalin, Mao, and even Hitler had little respect for religion, believing in God does not make someone righteous, just as not believing in God does not make a person evil. There is no philosophy in the world that guarantees proper moral behavior, though there are some ideologies that are more susceptible to corruption than others. It is why, as a society, we have continued to refine our ethical and moral understanding far beyond the crude teachings of religion. We no longer tolerate stoning, slavery, rape, genocide, and cruelty; something that would be impossible if the texts of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are ever taken literally (which in some countries are). Our modern morality actually requires believers to create a practical, 21st century approach to their belief. It isn’t the other way around for obvious reasons.

Since I know I have quite a few believers that sometimes visit the site, I want to state the unpopular reality that the basic reason why all Western countries have separation of church and state is because of how scary religious people are. Seriously. When even a few of you get in power, you create frighteningly unjust laws; your followers would gladly incarcerate people who simply defame their religion in some way. Do you think that is an adequate response to something as basic as freedom of speech? For a long time now, we have understood the simple truth that, so long as societies were dictated by religiously motivated individuals, we would never be free to discuss radical ideas that would change the very fabric of society. We live in a world made possible only by wrestling power out of your hands.

The civilized and reasonable chose to do it in a bloodless way; the Declaration of Independence is so unique and wonderful specifically because it managed to lay out the creation of a state without making religion a crime, and where no persecution of those once in power is possible. They effectively managed to remove the ability of religions to interfere with government operations. The evidence for just how shitty the world is when you guys take control can be found in all theocratic countries. Would Orson like to live in a place where religion is mandatory and invasive? I highly doubt it.

You might still think religion is something valuable to human development, but there is no indication human beings are any more or less moral without it. What atheism says that scares you to your very core is not only do we not need your services to understand the natural world (which most of us have abandoned a while ago) or to govern our politics; we also don’t need you to raise functional, moral citizens. Can someone please explain to me what’s left?